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 EPIC HDR mode! (18 stops in motion) Footage now posted!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: EPIC HDR mode! (18 stops in motion) Footage now posted! Reply with quote

This was recently posted online by RED's Jim Jannard:

"Off the chart...

We have said all along that we love film, but at some point it is headed to the retirement home. Our fear was that digital replacements would not be good enough. We believe that the primary areas needed for digital to "measure up" are:

1. Resolution

2. Dynamic range

3. "Feel"

Resolution has never been an issue with RED. And people seem very happy with the "hand and feel" of RED footage, primarily because we don't have to sharpen our footage due to lack of resolution.

Tonight was a big night for us. We enabled our EPIC variable HDR mode and the results are hard to believe. We were so blown away that we called Micheal Cioni over from LightIron to witness it... otherwise we risked being called a scam (again). I think there is a new dynamic range leader in the camera world. We will post a chart shortly.

It was a good night over here at the RED Studios Hollywood..." :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Cioni of LightIron Digital Post recently posted this online regarding the EPIC's HDR mode:

"More than Meets the (human) Eye?

Today I saw more stops from a captured R3D than I could with my own naked eye. No exaggeration. I've long talked about a world in which digital technology-driven dynamic range exceeds what the human eye can render. I am dangerously close to being speechless.

[below is a picture of history being made by some of the industry's biggest underdogs]"

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more from Jim:

"We still have some work to do but the entire team was very quiet, eyes and mouths wide open when the 1st images came up on Graeme's screen.

I'll give you some clues on HDRx©...

1. What we are doing has never been done before.

2. We have different (variable) HDRx© modes.

3. The test Michael Cioni saw was 18 stops.

4. We have a lot of work to do to characterize and implement variable HDRx© in EPIC.

5. We need a new chart. :-)

More details when we have the faintest idea of what we are doing..." :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Jannard:

"We just gave birth to RED HDRx last night and the results are jaw-dropping. There is still a ton of work to do to tune up the program. After talking to the engineers, it seems highly unlikely we can tie all this stuff up before we begin shipping EPIC... which is what I said in an earlier post. This is a feature that will be added to the camera when fully ready. It is complicated stuff. But very cool."

And later he posted:

"#21...

OK... now we can tell you. #21 is a magic HDR mode. It is quite unusual and we think one of the coolest new features you will have ever seen.

I guess the original post was a Scarlet post. At that time #21 was just a mistake. Since I forgot what I posted and what it was in reference to, I just thought this new magic HDR should go there since it is so cool. We are trying to see if we can implement it in Scarlet... but no promises today.

This mode was planned from the beginning and included in the ASICs (plural) design. We just now are at the point where we could bring it up in the camera. It works just liked we had hoped. Seeing it in our minds was one thing, seeing it in motion is quite another. Smile It has a look like nothing we have ever seen... in a good way."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update from Jim Jannard:

"It is working and is a very cool mode. More as soon as we can.

The surprise is how few things need this kind of range. It is adjustable so you can dial in only what you need."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We have successfully tested EPIC HDRx to 18 stops of dynamic range in motion. You can use the mode in two ways... Easy HDR (in camera) and HDRx (manipulate in post). It can be used several ways, including the "magic" way... which is very cool. Or there is a "normal" way to deal with motion blur. Since it is very rare to need 18 stops, you can set different HDR settings... like +3 stops, +4 stops, etc.

It is up to and including 18 stops... You can set any number from +3 to +6 stops.

(The only "disadvantage" are that you record twice the data. Max frame rate is 48fps for 5K... and double the data rate.)

You are really going to love this. We are working with the Foundry for the HDRx mode. Graeme and the Foundry boys make a powerful combination."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We have a ton of engineering footage. But we want to reveal HDRx in a "knock your socks off" way. Give us a bit to shoot some footage that is worthy of "here it is"... Smile

I will tell you that EPIC is the resolution leader. EPIC is the dynamic range leader. EPIC is the bang for buck leader. And EPIC is the size/performance leader. Actually... IMHO EPIC is, well Epic."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More from Jim:

"I have an EPIC here with me and I just don't need anything else. The "if I just had ____ (fill in the blank) is gone. I just might retire on this one and go to Fiji.

BTW... I have an EPIC with side SSD that shoots 5K at any REDCODE I want up to 250. It also shoot 120fps at 2.33:1. It weighs less than nothing. I LOVE it. I don't want anything more..."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Jim:

"Here is a chart and a quick ungraded pic...

Lets put it this way... there is more DR than you can get with any other camera. This was only +3. Bright sun and typically a problem. More footage to come that better represents what the HDRx mode can do.

The long and the short is... EPIC is it."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"BTW... that chart shows 18 stops.

Best part is that it is motion and not just a still!

Shoot normal ISO and get more highlight protection than you could ever imagine. The shadows have never been an issue. Clean... noiseless images that cover any scene.

HDRx is a two stream mode. You can choose to use it or not. Easy HDR is done in camera and is not reversible.

I have to say... the engineers earned their pay on this one. We told them what we wanted and they actually made it work. This mode will cause our competitors a lot of grief. Our resolution advantage was one thing... but add in the low light capability and now the DR. EPIC is a handful. :-)

Did I say that EPIC is all I ever wanted?"

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More from Jim Jannard:

"My bet is that EPIC is the 1st digital camera to beat film in every way.

It is smaller than every 35mm film camera. It has more resolution. More dynamic range. The color science is now perfect. It is cheaper than a film camera. It records to a reusable SSD or CF. The results are NOW.

I have to say that EPIC achieves everything we ever set out to accomplish. Wow."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding 3rd Party development:

Jim:
"We will give you a free option through REDCINE-X. I'm quite sure there will be a Storm option... and an SDK option for the others. We are in the business of giving our customers what they need."

Deanan:
"Accessing HDRx streams will be available in the SDK."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, Jim is overwhelmed by what his team has accomplished, and after having personally witnessed much of the development of the program, from prototypes of the first RED ONE until now, I have to say I agree - EPIC is poised to turn the entire industry upside down. I made a post on REDUser about a year ago - something to do with the real Tidal Wave to come... Well, folks... brace yourselves.

Jim:

"While there will always be "more"... EPIC is a game changer.

You will likely not ever need more. You will get it because we will make it. But EPIC is the ONE that changed everything. I have seen a lot. I own over 1000 cameras. EPIC is the one that will change history. It is the one that covers everything. Size, price,performance. If I died and went (somewhere)... I will be content. EPIC will get to market."



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More info on HDR modes from Jim...

"Max frame rate is 48fps for 5K... and double the data rate.

I need to clarify one thing...

EasyHDR™ happens in camera and there is NO hit to the data rate. Files come out of the camera the same size as normal mode. You are, however, constrained to 5K at 48fps. The HDR is "baked in" to the file so there is no post option for combining frames.

(It is still records as REDCODE RAW. Only the HDR combining is "baked in". That probably is a bad choice of words...)

HDRx™ is recorded as two streams, so data rate is twice normal mode. Combining them happens in post and there are a wide variety of options for doing this. Again, you are limited to shooting maximum 5K at 48fps.

No promises but we are looking at HDRx™ with smaller frame sizes and higher fps.

When we said there was a lot of power inside an EPIC... we weren't kidding. :-)

You can still use RED Drives up to a certain REDCODE... not exactly sure what that is right now."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More from Jim...

"HDRx™ footage...

OK, folks. This is the 1st posted HDRx™ footage from an EPIC camera.

It was shot in Las Vegas in HDRx™ Mode. It was processed with "Magic Motion" and not with MNMB. This motion mode is the same one that comes with EasyHDR™.

We left the footage flat... kinda looks like 1950's film to go with all the Elvis impersonators there. Smile

To recap...

EasyHDR™- done in camera with "Magic Motion".

HDRx™- done in post with either "Magic Motion" or "MNMB" (More Normal Motion Blur).

Please remember, this is VERY EARLY in development. We like it."



http://red.cachefly.net/17hx.mov

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Visual Effects Supervisor, Jon Farhat on EPIC HDRx:

"I just saw a demo last night of the HDRx™ projected in 4K at RED Studios screening stage. I encourage EVERYBODY in VFX to see this! Absolutely, hands down the biggest advancement in the practical use of HDR I've ever seen.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a cheerleader here. I write very few posts but I feel compelled to share what I've seen with all my friends in the industry. If you thought the camera was a game changer, wait till you see this.

Seeing the jpg of the Fremont Street (Vegas) post doesn't do it justice. You have to get over to RED and see this for yourself.

Since the data is separated into two streams, there is full control with how you put the two together. Whether it's assembled in camera or you combine the range in post using the tools such as the Foundry's HDR motion plugin - you will be stunned at the results. GET OVER THERE AND SEE THIS ON THE BIG SCREEN!!!

But what blew me away even more, was the "Magic Motion" routine. The motion blur that is created using the two streams is some of the most pleasing to the eye I've seen.

We all know that with mechanical shutters, there has always been an issue with strobing when panning. (The Arri cameras of course produce more side to side strobing as opposed to the Panavision due to the difference with horizontal vs. vertical shutter movements)

Emulating the 'shutter angle' in digital cameras has always sought to produce this effect of blur created from the leading edge and trailing edge of the shutter. Whether you liked it or not, it was considered 'filmic', therefore we've sought to mimic.

BUT... the motion blur that is produced by the "Magic Motion" routine is soooooo much more pleasing to the eye, it has the filmic look, but without strobing or skew issues associated with most digital emulations.

Here's where the cool stuff comes in for people who take the images apart and reassemble them for VFX purposes or even extensive DI routines.

YOU CAN USE THE SHARPER, (ie: leading edge of the shutter) to do your motion tracking, 3D tracking, and highlight retention like never before. Discrete, sharp, pinpoint tracking points from the highlight passes can be used for the tracking and matte separation needs. YOU CAN SEE THE FILAMENTS IN THE LIGHT BULBS on the many lights in the shot.

Anyone who has ever tried to shoot Vegas lights, at night knows what I'm talking about.

And if you thought that was the height of cool, RED is currently working on a proxy mode workflow for use with NUKE for instance, so you don't have to move all the data across your network until you need it or decide to render.

Having the two records available for the DI process alone is a major breakthrough.

Okay, I'm really starting to sound like a groupie here... don't take my word for it. No one is serving up the Kool-Aid here. It's real.

GET OVER THERE AND SEE THIS IF YOU CAN!

By the way, the Epic camera, (yes I got to shoot with it) is hands down the best camera in the world. The extreme range and sharpness does the opposite of what you'd expect. NO it doesn't make women look harsh... it actually represents their subtle tones. The absence of in-camera sharpening produces a pleasing range of tones in the areas you need them most. The edges. Literally there are measurable levels of range on the EDGES.

Matte extraction never had it so easy.

Thank you Jim, Jarred and Deanan for this demo."

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