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 New Solid State SATA HD's... (in Red's future?)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: New Solid State SATA HD's... (in Red's future?) Reply with quote

New breakthroughs in solid state Hard Drives may be just what the Red One camera needs for fast, reliable, portable on-camera storage. This announcement from PQI is for a 64GB SATA Solid State Drive. 64GB is a good start... but imagine 500GB or 1TB versions in a portable raid...

http://www.pqi.com.tw/news_1.asp?ID=1444

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bollerello
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: 128gb Reply with quote

A 128GB Drive has already been announced for 2ndQtr 07, you know where this is going...

Also, RAID doesn't have as much impact with flash drives as it does with mechanical units, since the flash drives are already many times faster than a mechanical drive to begin with and should easily support full bandwidth uncompressed HD streams, and possibly 4k streams as well. These drives are still to new to the market for there to be failure-rate numbers of whole drive modules, but FLASH memory can be set up with internal error correction somewhat similar to RAID5/6 in it's ability to compensate for failed memory cells on the drive.

What would be really cool for these drives would be a little dongle-type converter that lets them connect to USB2.0/Firewire, so you can just pop the whole thing out of the cam, stick a USB cable in it and use it as a source, with no download needed.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 128gb Reply with quote

bollerello wrote:
What would be really cool for these drives would be a little dongle-type converter that lets them connect to USB2.0/Firewire, so you can just pop the whole thing out of the cam, stick a USB cable in it and use it as a source, with no download needed.


Now that's a cool idea. Very easy on the workflow.

I would think the idea of setting them up in a raid might still be comforting so that you know you are recording redundantly in case of any full drive failure.

I also like the idea Sony has done with the XDCAM series which is using a BlueRay type technology in a removeable cartridge system.

This may be one of the better ways of dealing with the large amounts of Data, but eventually, these discs will need to be backed up as well. I am hearing reports that DVDs are not lasting as long as once was expected from them.

Veering slightly off topic, I think the true challenge for the future of Digital Cinema is how to store the large amounts of data and on which format that will be around 10, 20 or 50 years from now. Perhaps film will make a comeback as a storage method? You could rescan the DIs to Film... Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some information re: the current designs for the "Red Drive" and Red Raw" storage options... all subject to change...

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bollerello
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 128gb Reply with quote

Quote:
I also like the idea Sony has done with the XDCAM series which is using a BlueRay type technology in a removeable cartridge system.

This may be one of the better ways of dealing with the large amounts of Data, but eventually, these discs will need to be backed up as well. I am hearing reports that DVDs are not lasting as long as once was expected from them.

Veering slightly off topic, I think the true challenge for the future of Digital Cinema is how to store the large amounts of data and on which format that will be around 10, 20 or 50 years from now. Perhaps film will make a comeback as a storage method? You could rescan the DIs to Film... Smile


I've heard of sony's consumer line that had the same deal only with a regular DVD instead of Blu-Ray. I dunno about this, seems like it would be very convenient in some cases but with such a delicate mechanism working under such narrow tolerances, aren't you just asking for trouble with that system? Dust, shock, heat, vibration. A spinning platter that needs a microscopically-close air gap to record, combined with a recording process that depends on exact temperature ranges to work. A mechanism that will be subject to repeated openings and closings and exposure to the environment. Gyroscopic forces on the spinning disc that will be affected by turning or inverting the camera. I guess time will tell how effective it is, but in the absence of field-tested data I would take a solid state drive over that contraption any day of the week, even if it was twice the price. Maybe a good plan for studio or indoor work, or a locked down master shot where you need scads of recording time without changing media. But in those cases, whats wrong with a regular old laptop hard drive? Similar, actually fewer limitations, lots and lots more storage.

Long term archival storage is a problem that is being addressed on a lot of fronts. I've heard there are already CD-R and DVD-R discs that are specifically designed with 100-year viability as a performace objective. In another 10 years I wouldnt be suprised to see 500-year or 1000-year longevity as a benchmark (combined with enormous storage that would allow for things like on-disc error correction parity or even multiple mirrored copies of the same data with a way to read from them all simultaneously and compute the corrected average of all the copies).

Still hard to beat the durability of film though, mostly beacuse its such a low density format and as such, isnt as sensitive to environmental damage. Think about how little data there is in a single 35mm frame compared wtih how much you can pack into the same area on the surface of a Blu-ray disk...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that solid state is going to be a great way to go... But I do like the idea of also having an instant physical backup made on the fly that is inexpensive.

Maxell has a newer version of it's Professional Disc media for XDCAM that is meant to combine high capacity storage and fast transfer rates. It is also supposed to be very reliable due to it's "rugged characteristics" (polycarbonite plastic cartridge) which they say will protect against dust, scratches, and finger prints and eliminates handling errors caused by heavy use. It's suppose to be shown at NAB '07.

Ideally, why not have both? In certain situations, this would be cumbersome, but in others it might be nice to record to Disc as well as SS HDs.

The Red Flash is supposed to be closer to what we spoke of earlier, but what's best is that there will be so many outputs on the camera and storage options to choose from...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today Adtron announced it's upcoming 160GB Solid State Flash Disc. We're gettin' there...

http://www.adtron.com/newsroom/25fb-Solid-State-Disk.html

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.pqi.com.tw/news_1.asp?ID=1617

Interesting... PQI's efforts 4 months later result in a 256GB version. Wow.

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